TSE Pods
TSE Pods
Truly Asia ep. 2: Freedom, Forces, and Future: Political Economy of Academia in Southeast Asia & Taiwan
There is a growing concern among academics recently. In Southeast Asia, Taiwan, and around the globe, there is a looming threat to academic freedom. In today's episode, we invited SHAPE SEA's Executive Director, Mr. Joel Mark Baysa-Barredo, to talk about academic freedom and the current political economic landscape of academia in the region. What is academic freedom? What can we do to protect it? He also shares about exciting opportunities for emerging scholars, so listen up!
Allan
Hello everyone this is your super curious classmate from Taipei School of Economics and Political science and I am welcoming To another episode of TSE Pods truly Asia, it has been a hot minute since we last had an episode. Fortunately, Asia so for today we are back with a bang. As we discussed, the pressing issue in Southeast Asia and Taiwan, more specifically in the academia joining with us today is the Executive Director of the Shape Sea Project Management Office of the Institute of Human Rights and Peace Studies at Maidu University. And academic activists working on issues and causes concerning human rights, social justice and peace in Southeast Asia and the global South, he graduated from the Institute of Human Rights and Peace Studies in Maidu University. And the Department of Political Science at the near the Magnolia University in the Philippines in 2006, he is also an Obama leader for the Obama Foundation, and he's none other than Mr. Joel Mark Dice about it. Hi, Sir. Joel, how are you?
Joel
Hello, Alan. Sodika. I'm calling in from Jakarta. Thank you very much for the for the kind introduction.
Allan
Thank you so much, Sir, for accepting our invitation. It has been a hot minute as well since we last walked in in person the first time we met was also in Jakarta, Indonesia for For workshop and religion and politics, so for our listeners who probably don't know about Shape Sea more about what Shape Sea is and what it does. Can you?
Joel
Thank you. So Shape Sea has been around since 2015 and. It was initiated by. By a community or consortium of of academics have been working on human rights, peace and and other critical fields in in the Academy and and their goal was to to set up a program that. That will provide that will support both research and learning on human rights and peace in Southeast Asia eventually. With with the vision of creating a culture of just social justice, democracy, human rights and peace through applied knowledge through applied research, capacity building, education, informed policy advocacy, intersectoral collaboration. So we are an academic program focusing really on the generation of knowledge. But also using that knowledge to create impact in in. In society, in at the policy level and and to those who have a stake. In in, in, in various affairs in our lives. So we we have a research grants program which is ongoing at the moment. So we we provide not only funding but also mentorship to emerging scholars and graduate students and yeah. And then we we provide them with with avenues for for dissemination. To a wider audience. So that's basically what we do.
Allan
Thank you so much, Mr. Joel. So our listeners, you've heard it from Sir Joel itself. They have a research grants program. Find the details about this pandemic opportunity.
Joel
So we are online on www.shapec.com. We're also on Facebook. You just have to look us up and we're also on in. Program on LinkedIn and Twitter. So where we try to be to to spread ourselves so that people will get to to know and and access our our support.
MHM.
Allan
That is a very exciting opportunity because I I mean my my team here. We are all doing our thesis, so it must be a good opportunity to also to look into what's interesting to me about Shape Sea.
Allan
The last time we talked, you approached me because she's coming here in Taiwan or went here in Taiwan all week after our workshop. And then you wanted to you wanted me to connect you with other Filipino scholars? Can you just talk about our experience as students?
And.
The general topic of academic freedom here in Taiwan about human rights is peace studies and promotion of social justice. Yes, it was. Interesting, because I've never really thought of the connection between academic freedom and human rights and peace because I came from a university back in my college where it is a huge buzzword point that I don't think I really understood what it means and appreciate what it what it is. So when you is it for you and for shapes you what is academic freedom? Why is it a concern for human rights and why is it gaining such prominence today here in Southeast Asia and in Taiwan?
Joel
Yeah, I think we come from I think. Beyond the concept or beyond the definition of academic freedom, we can there's an expanded version. There's also a more nuanced version of academic freedom. I think we we come from a position where academics do not just create knowledge out of the need to. To publish. I know that's that's the conventional, but we also see academics as being an integral part of of the of the of building democracies sustaining democracies. And with that being said. The ability to. To produce knowledge, to teach, to express scientific truths. Within or outside the classroom is something that one has to has to enjoy all the time. Without any, without any interference, without any fear. And I think that is what basically academic freedom is all about, whether you are in the field of the natural sciences, medicine and we've seen that a lot more recently during the pandemic where where academics try to. Address try. To. To make sense of what's happen. Morning. To us, particularly during the first wave, right, we also see that there is so much pushback, particularly by those who want to, to frame the pandemic in a certain way.
Allan
Yes.
Joel
But academics have this this tool, this these scientific tools to. Not only to generate knowledge, but to insist that this knowledge has to. Has to be the one that that, that that describes or analyzes a certain phenomenon. So what, for us is the integral, or it's the crucial aspect of of academic freedom and the role of academics, particularly in society.
Allan
Yeah. Academics are not just here to produce knowledge to publish. We are here and we are supposed to be here in academia to also create an impact and promote democracy and social justice. Actually, I I I heard a lot of stories, especially if you go. To academic Twitter or Academic XI have my own academic X profile, especially recently. The reason why I got interested about the economic freedom as well, because just recently there has been a lot of talks about academic freedom and Twitter, and I've heard a lot of stories of scholars getting on invited to conferences. There are professors who are and also students who are getting arrested. Scholars who are aren't able to do their research, I guess since we are here in the Taipei School of Economics and Political science, can you share with us more about? The challenges scholars and researchers like us encountered due to political and economic pressures in the region affecting academic freedom. How do political and economic factors shape academic freedom in Southeast Asia and Taiwan, and what role do they play, perhaps in determining? The priorities and now knowledge, production, knowledge dissemination and funding allocations. And stuff like that.
Joel
I actually actually mentioned it already widely. I think the political the again, you cannot separate the political from the economic, particularly in in countries like ours in the global South. And what and and what and the resources that are available, both the political and economic resources that are given, let's say to universities are sort of are used as the access to resources and the ability to to use these resources inform. The academic agenda, let's say, of of a university and where and what and what kind of direction they they would want to take and usual. 3 universities unfortunately in Southeast Asia, I can only maybe I can more comfortably speak about Southeast Asia. They are informed by what actually makes the university more popular, more student attractive, more internationally renowned and. And that's where that's how. That's how research or that's how. Teaching that how that's how the the reaching, both teaching and research agenda are are are pursued. No. And if you are this aligned from that. Yeah. And of course you get lesser support or you get marginalized or you get to or you get you, you are forced to do something else because that's where the money goes and and many of the academics, particularly in what I call academically in in economically developing countries. Have to follow the money for them to merely survive. Not only as academics, but as as human beings, right? So again.
Allan
Yeah.
Joel
The the kind of research and the ability and the opportunity to produce knowledge and what and the knowledge that you need to produce then drives what kind of of of outcomes that you will bring out that you will that you will be delivering. So let's say if if if the hot topic for the day is about environment and Environmental Protection environmental. Development. Then, because that is what the university leadership says, or that's where the money is is available for then people are driven to to take that route. No. But I think my whole point here is if if there is a. If there's an intent, and if there is, amongst particularly amongst university leadership or amongst policymakers to to to ensure that there is resource for research no on on, on whatever topic an academic wants to take, then I think that will will will have a much healthier. Academic environment. But I think because we are in a level of survival and everyone has to has to stay afloat within a very in, within a shrinking space then again. Everything is compromised, right? And I think this will this will definitely, and this is this has been gravely affecting academics from from both social and and social science and natural science fields that are not profitable.
Yes.
Allan
Yeah.
Joel
No.
Allan
Yeah, this thing goes up. Well, it's something that we always have been dealing with, especially I I'm coming from social sciences and I know how hard it is to really secure funding because it's it's not a. For lack of a better word, say the sexiest one in the game in terms of academia, most likely you will get funding if you come from the stamp, and so it's very disheartening to actually pursue it.
Joel
And. And can I say that I mean with, with, with, with the shrinking amount of money and the shrinking space, those who can access it are not actually the people who are who are sort of early in their careers or graduate students. These are the people who have. So that's where the political comes in, right?
Allan
Yes.
Joel
Academy is very procreative, it's very arctical and mostly those who have access to research funding are the ones who maybe are professorial level or those who have.
Allan
Can you?
Joel
From tenure already in their in their respective academic institutions. So again who access it accesses it, who and how do the resources access and to what? Becomes a very political issue within the Academy.
演講者
Yes.
Joel
Up until now.
Allan
Yeah. Hey, hey, hey. Had the first hand experience of it as well, so I really can relate to to to that because I I am of course an emerging scholar. It's it's going good for me to access funding.
Yes.
Allan
He's here in my here with my friends and I want him because I also have friends from the sciences, not just in the social sciences. I know that for their laboratories they get to have more funding. They get to pursue their researches more. But it's so disheartening. Sometimes they're discouraging, sometimes that. For, for, in politics or in social sciences, it's not the same playing field at all, and I'm curious to know how does this affect accessibility now of information, because in academia, our services in terms of economic terms. Our goods, the services that we produce is information. And how does this affect accessibility of information as well as knowledge distribution, knowledge production, among not just academics, but the wider public in general.
Joel
Again, now that it's become an economic issue because, because again with so little resources, universities have to invest on publishable academics.
演講者
Mm-hmm.
Joel
And that also means that when you publish something, it has to be something that is of high integrity of scientific rigor. And right now to publish it's very expensive because journals, in particular many journals, if not all. Money right now, charge fees for university, so the best quote UN quote the most academic, the most scientific.
Allan
Yes.
Joel
Knowledge out there the indexed ones.
Allan
Mm-hmm.
Joel
Are are not freely available to to the public because then if you want to to read something that is ground breaking, then you'll have to to pay to actually read it. And that's how that's how things work in the Academy, right. And This is why at shape, see and in in our in my community of academic activists, we we try to diversify. The channels for knowledge dissemination. Right, that it is not just while we fine while we see journals as a key to one's academic trajectory, we also inspire and we also try to encourage academics to take other routes that say writing policy. Papers writing in newspapers contributing into more into independent publishing where where books are made more accessible or free to the public right, because again from from a human rights and peace standpoint, some issues have demand to be to be released immediately. Joe. And and This is why academics are very crucial in this in this space. Because whatever knowledge you produce may impact or may affect, let's say, action or implementation of policies. Yeah. But if you make knowledge expense. Give then only those who can afford knowledge the knowledge that the the quality knowledge can can access it. Then you you you just create the cycle you create you you continue the cycle of of early tests to know more than the others.
Allan
Yes.
Joel
So for me that's A and that's why many people think that shapes is so disruptive in this space because it really it it really goes against. Uh. The the the academic wave of of of publishing, of, of disseminating knowledge. We even encourage, and we even support emerging scholars more than than than than senior scholars, because we we believe that we need to. We need to inspire. We need to encourage scientific leadership at a very young age. At the at the at the at the level where these academics are still early in their in their careers. Because. We also we also we also observed that more and more. Younger scholars find it discouraging to continue their careers because they don't see any point in teaching. They don't see any point in research anymore. So what we want to do is to make sure that that there that there is an opportunity for emerging scholars to to actually become research leaders. At this stage in their in their academic career, so that they can, at least they get their confidence boosted at, or at least at the very at the very early stages, they get to learn from their mistakes and then get supported for it as well. I mean that's that's that's OK, right.
Allan
That should be. Part of the entire ecosystem, actually, and you mentioned a while ago that knowledge is becoming more and more expensive. There are journals or charging you like 5000 NTD?
Changing.
Allan
A paper and this action was their intellectual elitism, I would say, because those who can access it are just those people who are. We're already in that entire backdrop and so you get discouraged on doing on going further into your career. But also I wanted to ask because you said that in shapes, see you try to foster, you, try to hold different channels and efforts where it you can disseminate. Right. Knowledge for scientific leadership, right? Like policy papers, newspaper independent publishing. But in academia, if you want, you want to go to Academy in the political economy of academia, right, there is certain. There's certain tracks and rules wherein you'd really have to follow in terms of their tenureship, and then sometimes your points people will not. Down and then that entire vertical arrangement of relationships in academia really affects also your standing color.
Joel
Yeah, I think it's so again, it's so difficult to. And it's become a culture. And when, when and a quite toxic one because then people, scholars have to sort of. Crumbled to actually get published and and I think that's a different kind of that's a different. Conversation altogether? No. But we've seen so much burnout within the Academy because they need to. What what you mentioned, right, it's it's something that is important for the academic credentials. And then I can I think you you kind of lose the the ethos of why you've been an academic. Again, I'm. I'm I'm speaking from a place of disruption here. Yeah, ask if you ask your professor. The next door Professor would tell you.
Allan
Yes, yes, yes.
Joel
That ohh, this is how it should be. But for us, because we see the opportunity and we've seen it.
演講者
Through.
Joel
I've I'm what I can say this. I'm standing on the shoulders of of academics who have done, and who can actually do beyond just academic journal writing, just the conventional. I mean, we're not. I'm not saying for people, for academics, to to to completely get away from that. That I've seen people who have who are so passionate in their work, who are so passionate in research and in in, in learning for change that. Yeah. I mean, it's not the only track that once can take if they, UM, if they if they remain to stay in this in this community. But because there is so much pressure from the top to actually, you know, to to contribute, let's say, to to, to the ranking or to the credentials of the university, many academics fall into the trap of just complying with that. And and I've seen some also have burned out and have given up. Because that's on top of. Course of of of of the rather uncompetitive compensation that that universities provide, right? So.
Allan
Mm-hmm.
Joel
Yeah. So again, it's it's it's, it's it's more complicated than we think because again we are we are we are in a position for shapes when a position that's sort of goes against the grain.
Allan
It's right there.
Joel
Yeah, it's up there. Yeah. But but again, it's worth the try, no?
Allan
Yes, and it's always, as you mentioned a while ago to me as we are talking about these parts, it's always it's always about taking that one simple step towards certain option. So we've been talking a lot about the perspective of those who are in the Academy already like young.
Oh.
Allan
Creatures. But then I wanted to talk about the other side of the communication model or the economic model. Those people who are ought to be able to read this information or the audience to market because of this entire. Dynamics in academia. How does this affect the the the diversity of knowledge that people get to read? The reliability of the information that they get, and the availability of it, and what the implication and the consequences then do you think? It has for economic development, social justice and these things.
Joel
Yeah, I know. I think I think. Yeah. So again the the both access and the availability of knowledge has got to do really on how societies are defined and how societies will be. I mean, how in, in the direction that societies will be taking, no. And if you don't have data, particularly for government, then it they won't, they won't. They won't allocate budget for it and they won't act on it anyways, particularly like I was just talking about the situation of of LGBTQ plus people. But if don't write about them, if you don't research about them. They don't include them in your data sets. Even nothing will happen, then they will remain silence and marginalized or invisible, right? So it becomes very personal also for someone who is who is made invisible just because you are not included in.
Allan
Yeah.
Joel
The data set or the knowledge agenda. So I think that is that is it at the end of the day if you're not. If you're not. If your phenomenon is not if the phenomenon we are in or your experience is not recognized. Then yeah, then you remain. Anonymous, you remain unchecked and accounted for.
Allan
Yes. And you feel like you're excluded, honestly.
Joel
Lose it? Yeah. And and that's why we need. We need more investment. We need more opportunities for researchers because there is so much curiosity out there. But that curiosity is not being supported. You know, I mean again, only a few people can. There's so much and so many live live experiences that are waiting to be discovered.
Allan
Yes.
OK.
Joel
Like that.
Allan
Hey, I last semester I think I wrote about this. I I tried to review the literature on urban planning and how the queer community is silenced. And then I was like because as I was reading. Human planning. Most of the most of the papers on gender studies would talk about. Access on under planning, but then where am I as a peer person? So it I actually entitled it as back in the closet because we we I I am excluded in this conversation and this should be a going there is a growing knowledge in gender in queer studies. OK. There needs to be more push for that, not big gate gate as. Because of policy agendas and whatnot, I guess for a final note, Sir, what do you think should be or what measures can we take to safeguard academic freedom? What institutions are crucial and policies are crucial so that we ensure our academic freedoms are protected.
Joel
Yeah, I think. M. I well, again I think collaboration. I think we need universities, particularly university leadership, to understand and to. To understand and to be. Gravely serious about academic freedom, because I think it is, it is the foundation. Or or once not career, but also contribution to the community you know. And if you have academic if, if there's political will at the top on the top. The decision making level. Then again, I think it would be, as I've said, I'm a safe, brave and healthy space for anyone to contribute to knowledge, to the teaching, to the generation of knowledge. Again, we need to have the buy in of of the leaders who are making. Secondly, I think we need to imbibe really this. The spirit of academic activism amongst across the board. Yeah. And I think I'm not just talking about people or working on human rights or peace or democracy. We need people in the in the natural sciences to also be on board when we talk about the most critical issues in our society. And again, convincing them to to include. Social critical issues in their research agenda so that we can we can. We can. Fully.
演講者
Uh.
Joel
Be able to so that we can get the much bigger picture of what is happening to make sense of what's happening in our in our, in our societies. And I think thirdly, I think it's it's important to. Yeah, to to to. To encourage and, I think to to under, to encourage that academia, I think, wait. I think my third the third idea. The third thing that I want to say is that to to always bear in mind that the academia that the Academy, that academics are an important are integral part of of of building nations of building democracies, because then you get to invest. Or in the team you don't just see them as. As as merely you know this, this, this people, I mean, every person has their stake and contribution to society. But I think academics in particular have a lot to say and have a lot to to do. The way that the, the, the, the next generation, the present generation, the next generation.
Allan
Mm-hmm.
Joel
We'll be taking care of our country so. Again, it's very important to to see in that way so that you can invest in them more and you can give them and empower them to to do more research, to teach more and be more empowered in in contributing to.
Allan
So yes, collaboration. Activism and academia is an important and an integral part of nation building. Thank you so much, Sir Joel, this very insightful talk with you.
Joel
Thank you.
Allan
There any events of shape that you would want to promote as well?
Joel
So we are actually in the middle of our program here and we've just released. Unfortunately we we've already closed our call for 2024 research grants program. But but, but we'll be sending out a call for application soon for our 2025 cohort. In August, the the third, the third quarter of of the year will be very busy for us. We'll be conducting the 6th International Conference on Human Rights and Peace and Conflict in Southeast Asia. That will be in Penang. The call for. Absolute submissions is still open. Yeah, so please, please follow us on Instagram, on Facebook, and on and please do watch us out on on on our website because then we'll be sending more information on what's up and coming.
Allan
Thank you so much, Sir. Julian. That's it for Jersey pass through the ages and this is Alex Salazar. Thank you and.
